Coupe air con - help please

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red_coupe
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Coupe air con - help please

#1 Post by red_coupe » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:20 pm

Hi guys,

Not sure if this is the correct section for it.
Has anyone ever retrofited air con to a Coupe (2.0T Series)?
Does anyone know the all the required parts that are needed?

Are some parts interchangeable between the 1.6L Honda and 2.0T Rover (evaporator/radiator)?

Thanks in advance

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GTiJohn
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Re: Coupe air con - help please

#2 Post by GTiJohn » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:21 am

Pretty sure anything in the engine bay won't be common between those two engines as the rotate in opposite directions they sit on opposite sides of the bay, making it near impossible to pipe it up.

The T turbo engine bay is rather crowded but it does all fit. Just!

Have a look at Rimmer Bros diagrams to see what part numbers you can find and i may be able to fill in some gaps.

Pls post what you find here as it'll help others :)
I like Twin Cams.... and Single Cams

red_coupe
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Re: Coupe air con - help please

#3 Post by red_coupe » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:00 am

Thanks for your reply.

Unfortunately rimmer diagrams are not so accurate, in terms of differences between 1.6L and 2.0L versions, because they don't list the details for parts NLA (which is the case for most of them).

So, there are parts I don't know if they are different or not. Of course the pipes inside engine bay will be different, but I've gathered everything.

Now my only concern is about the items that should sit near the firewall/under the dashboard. As I can see, our car uses a radiator/evaporator, and that's the one I'm not sure if different or not, and where it should be installed.

Does anyone have an idea?

Thanks once again

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ROVER-25X
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Re: Coupe air con - help please

#4 Post by ROVER-25X » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:40 am

You will need:

AC Pump
Pump Mounting Bracket (The Alternator may be fitted differently too so additional bracketry will be needed)
Drive Belt for using AC
The Condenser/Front AC Cooling Rad
Dryer Unit
All the Pipes
O-Rings
AC Air Box with the Heat Exchanger inside
Possibly the AC compliant Fan Box
Switch (Sits below the heater knobs between the sliders, if you have the bubble dash one from a 25 will do)
Relay and Wiring


Its a shame you don't have a K-Series like my Cabby as all the parts from a 25 will fit and only a few rad
mounts need work.
The 25X (2001 ROVER 25 1.4 Impression S, fate TBD)
The CX8 (1997 ROVER Cabriolet 1.6 K-Series, Resto Project)
The 25XD (2004 ROVER 25 2.0TD, Track Car ?)
The Parts Bin (2001 ROVER 25 1.6 S)
The ASTRA-DX (2012 VAUXHALL ASTRA 1.7CDTi, Daily Eco Driver)

carsen80
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Re: Coupe air con - help please

#5 Post by carsen80 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:18 am

I'm currently trying to source aircon parts for my FDH which had everything air con removed from the engine bay after an engine swap.
I am getting absolutley nowhere with getting any of the engine bay aircon pipes so if you come across any duplicates let me know.

My first bit of advice is look on allbrit.de it has all the diagrams and part numbers you will need.

I think the condenser is different between the NASP and Turbo as the turbo one looks shorter to accomodate the intercooler.
eitherway it mounts between the radiator on fans at the front and you will also need the frame it mounts in.

If your car never had air con there are a few other bits besides pipes you will need that bolt onto the engine.
As they had to make room for the compressor the alternator is mounted higher so you will need the following
  • Alternator (different mounts on aircon version and has a 6 ribbed pulley)
  • The large enclosure/mounting for the waterpump/PSpump/compressor this it totally differnt from the none aircon one.
  • Small bracket that mounts on above bracket to mount alternator on
  • Coolent outlet elbow - this is closer to the head and does not contain the thermostate. This allows room for the higher alternator.
  • top coolent pipe from elbow to radiator - this has the thermostate mounted in it instead of the outlet elbow
  • waterpump cover - the outlet from this points down instead of up to clear the compressor
  • Rubber waterpump pipe to lower metal coolent pipe - This is straight rather than bent so it marries up with the lower water pump outlet.
  • lower metal coolent pipe - again this is straighter to clear compressorand marry up with the rubber pipe
  • crank pully - this drives a 6 ribbed belt rather than the standard 5 ribbed
  • PS pump - has a staight outlet to clear compressor plus 6 ribbed pulley
There are also some differences in the power steering pipes but I have not looked into these as my car originally had air con.
You may also need an ECU as I believe it controls when the Aircon can operate due to engine temps and load and there is also a large relay mounted on the top right of the bulkhead which I believe has somenthing to do with the aircon wiring.

Finally as far as I can tell the major aircon pipes are only interchangable between other 2ltr R8 variants (ie 220/420 NASP and Turbo).
By major I mean the pipe that runs from the bulkhead to the reciever/dryer. The pipe that runs from dryer in front of the radiator fans to the condensor and finally the most comprehensive pipe which runs from condensor to compressor and back to bulhead.

PM me if you want the diagrams/parts numbers for any of the above.

Cheers
Jonathan
Last edited by carsen80 on Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

red_coupe
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Re: Coupe air con - help please

#6 Post by red_coupe » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:19 am

ROVER-25X wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:40 am
You will need:

AC Pump
Pump Mounting Bracket (The Alternator may be fitted differently too so additional bracketry will be needed)
Drive Belt for using AC
The Condenser/Front AC Cooling Rad
Dryer Unit
All the Pipes
O-Rings
AC Air Box with the Heat Exchanger inside
Possibly the AC compliant Fan Box
Switch (Sits below the heater knobs between the sliders, if you have the bubble dash one from a 25 will do)
Relay and Wiring


Its a shame you don't have a K-Series like my Cabby as all the parts from a 25 will fit and only a few rad
mounts need work.
Thanks for your reply.
Mine is the first model dash (from 89-95), so pre-bubble. Any of the items from a 200/25 that are compatible (inside wiring, switches/relays)?

From what you mention, I have ac pump with the support, ac compressor with wiring, condenser, dryer, all the metal pipes & o-rings (according to this picture: https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID002254) and pressure sensor switch.

I'm not sure about the fans, I have them but no wiring.
I also don't have the wiring for inside (from the AC button inside the dash and to where to go - might I source it from a normal 216 honda?).

I'm not sure also about the evaporator/radiator that should be used. Should I have this (https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID002251)? I have a big black box that I can't remember where it came from. Seems to be a box that sits behind the central dash vents. It has a radiator inside. Should it be the ac radiator/evaporator or is this the heater matrix? This is my main doubt at the moment, cause I'm not sure if its this, or if not, if I can get this and the expansion valves from a 216 or should be from a 220 aswell.


Thanks again

red_coupe
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Re: Coupe air con - help please

#7 Post by red_coupe » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:22 am

carsen80 wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:18 am
I'm currently trying to source aircon parts for my FDH which had everything air con removed from the engine bay after an engine swap.
I am getting absolutley nowhere with getting any of the engine bay aircon pipes so if you come across any duplicates let me know.

My first bit of advice is look on allbrit.de it has all the diagrams and part numbers you will need.

If your car never had air con there are a few other bits besides pipes you will need that bolt onto the engine.
As they had to make room for the compressor the alternator is mounted higher so you will need the following
  • Alternator (different mounts on aircon version and has a 6 ribbed pulley)
  • The large enclosure/mounting for the waterpump/PSpump/compressor this it totally differnt from the none aircon one.
  • Small bracket that mounts on above bracket to mount alternator on
  • Coolent outlet elbow - this is closer to the head and does not contain the thermostate. This allows room for the higher alternator.
  • top coolent pipe from elbow to radiator - this has the thermostate mounted in it instead of the outlet elbow
  • waterpump cover - the outlet from this points down instead of up to clear the compressor
  • Rubber waterpump pipe to lower metal coolent pipe - This is straight rather than bent so it marries up with the lower water pump outlet.
  • lower metal coolent pipe - again this is straighter to clear compressorand marry up with the rubber pipe
  • crank pully - this drives a 6 ribbed belt rather than the standard 5 ribbed
  • PS pump - has a staight outlet to clear compressor plus 6 ribbed pulley
There are also some differences in the power steering pipes but I have not looked into these as my car originally had air con.

Finally as far as I can tell the major aircon pipes are only interchangable between other 2ltr R8 variants (ie 220/420 NASP and Turbo).
By major I mean the pipe that runs from the bulkhead to the reciever/dryer. The pipe that runs from dryer in front of the radiator fans to the condensor and finally the most comprehensive pipe which runs from condensor to compressor and back to bulhead.

PM me if you want the diagrams/parts numbers for any of the above.

Cheers
Jonathan
Cheers for your message Jonathan. Might look incredible, but I got all the metal pipes. Just really not sure about wiring to the inside (to the ac switch button) and where should be the inside radiator/evaporator.

Yes I will send you now a PM. Appreciate your help

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Re: Coupe air con - help please

#8 Post by crepello » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:48 pm

red_coupe wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:00 am
Unfortunately rimmer diagrams are not so accurate, in terms of differences between 1.6L and 2.0L versions, because they don't list the details for parts NLA (which is the case for most of them).
This is very short-sighted of them, they used to be comprehensive listings. Has all the hallmarks of recruiting a 'new broom' who causes havoc then moves on.
If it helped someone track down NLA parts or equivalents elsewhere, instead of scrapping their vehicle, they'd retain a future customer for what they do have in stock.

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Re: Coupe air con - help please

#9 Post by Cromp85 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:14 pm

Have you looked at the R25 diesel A/C parts? The L series engine is a similar size to the T so the components might be a better fit in the engine bay.
I have never tried doing it so this just a suggestion. You are not the only person trying to fit A/C on their 220, there is another chap on here restoring an FDH coupe having the same problem sourcing parts.
My Rovers to date:
1994 Rover 220GSI in Tahiti blue (On the road)
2002 MG ZR 105 in Solar red (On loan)
1995 214i (On SORN)

red_coupe
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Re: Coupe air con - help please

#10 Post by red_coupe » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:17 pm

Cromp85 wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:14 pm
Have you looked at the R25 diesel A/C parts? The L series engine is a similar size to the T so the components might be a better fit in the engine bay.
I have never tried doing it so this just a suggestion. You are not the only person trying to fit A/C on their 220, there is another chap on here restoring an FDH coupe having the same problem sourcing parts.
Yes, actually he has already replied to this thread and being really helpful providing some diagrams.

As I can see, I got pretty much everything, except for wiring to the interior and the evaporator. Those are the only parts that I was wondering if I can source somewhere else (like 216 coupes or 200/25 bubble shape). By the diagrams, I cannot be 100% sure if they fit or not. Hope that someone knows and can confirm.

Regards

Cromp85
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Re: Coupe air con - help please

#11 Post by Cromp85 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:44 pm

I have compared the evaporator diagrams on rimmers, the R8 part is a lot different to the later R3 one. The post 95 cars have the R3 dashboard and heater ducting. There is a chance the evaporator will fit if the bulkhead is the same. R.E wiring; I think the electrics were a comination of R8 & R3, so a wiring diagram for these cars might be a starting point. I have the 1999 R3 200 diagrams, The 2003 25 diagrams, but i only have have the 1992 R8 diagrams (pre 5AS imobilliser) are these any use to you?
My Rovers to date:
1994 Rover 220GSI in Tahiti blue (On the road)
2002 MG ZR 105 in Solar red (On loan)
1995 214i (On SORN)

red_coupe
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Re: Coupe air con - help please

#12 Post by red_coupe » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:06 pm

Cromp85 wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:44 pm
I have compared the evaporator diagrams on rimmers, the R8 part is a lot different to the later R3 one. The post 95 cars have the R3 dashboard and heater ducting. There is a chance the evaporator will fit if the bulkhead is the same. R.E wiring; I think the electrics were a comination of R8 & R3, so a wiring diagram for these cars might be a starting point. I have the 1999 R3 200 diagrams, The 2003 25 diagrams, but i only have have the 1992 R8 diagrams (pre 5AS imobilliser) are these any use to you?
Mine is from 1993, so its still the one that uses IR fob alarm. Bulkhead is the same from a 220 coupe or a 216 coupe. My hope is that they share the same evaporator & wiring, no matter with engine inside bay they are using...

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Re: Coupe air con - help please

#13 Post by Cromp85 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:53 pm

The R8 Electical manual i have will match your car then.
The A/C systems will most likely use different parts doing the same thing (e.g Relay in different location but the same function) The wiring manuals i have are all PDF files, if you want copies send me a PM with your Email.
My Rovers to date:
1994 Rover 220GSI in Tahiti blue (On the road)
2002 MG ZR 105 in Solar red (On loan)
1995 214i (On SORN)

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Re: Coupe air con - help please

#14 Post by richard moss » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:13 am

If you can't get original parts, you may be able to make use of some generic/universal parts. A useful company for DIY car stuff is Car Builder Solutions, who are aimed at the kit car market, but have a million and one of those "If only I could get a......" type parts. Their online catalogue is pretty good.

You should be able to make up pipes etc from universal parts and I can guarantee that there is info on the WWW that will give guidance on retrofitting aircon.

A guy called Brian Gunn retrofitted climate control to a Rover (possibly an R8) - might be worth a search for his writeup. I think it was on ARonline

L series diesel parts sound like a good starting point, though.
Out in the desert with 2 old Jeeps and a Saab 9-3 cabrio
Back home: wife's 1993 216 DOHC Cabriolet, daughter's R100 and my 1969 MGC GT

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Re: Coupe air con - help please

#15 Post by ROVER-25X » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:05 pm

For compatible parts go on to Rimmer Bros and compare the K-Series, T-Series and L-Series engine A/C pipes
and parts to if you get matching numbers for a K or and L, remember, the 400/45/ZS is an option to look at too
as I found matching part numbers across not just engines but car models too, here's some of my info. :wink3



Image



All parts from the 25/ZR fit.


Condensor - 45/ZS will fit.

Compressor - 45/ZS will fit.

Compressor Bracket - 45/ZS will fit.

Condeser Bracket RH Upper - Part No.: JRF100340

Condeser Bracket LH Upper - Part No.: JRF100350



R8 A/C Switch - YUG10029
The 25X (2001 ROVER 25 1.4 Impression S, fate TBD)
The CX8 (1997 ROVER Cabriolet 1.6 K-Series, Resto Project)
The 25XD (2004 ROVER 25 2.0TD, Track Car ?)
The Parts Bin (2001 ROVER 25 1.6 S)
The ASTRA-DX (2012 VAUXHALL ASTRA 1.7CDTi, Daily Eco Driver)

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