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Re: Which things will kill our cars? Common faults?

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:09 pm
by Paul_1978_yorks
wellsm wrote:Ref the Honda ALB people, don't even bother trying! I spent weeks looking for a unit and then when I got a second hand one nobody could locate the tool to bleed it anywhere. I ended up having it removed and a standard brake system installed, which is what the first 216gti I had in 1992 was anyway :-)

I imagine 216 Gti wheels would be worth storing if there was space as I am sure they must be pretty irreplaceable now.

Cheers, Mark
Interesting Stuff this. After driving 214 SEi's for many years, my next R8 will be a 216 (Honda engine). Having never has a 216 before I'll have a whole lot of new learning to do.

So what's this ALB - anti lock brakes? How will I know if I've got a problem with these?

How much is conversion to a "standard brake system" and what's involved in this?

Re: Which things will kill our cars? Common faults?

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:21 am
by GTiJohn
ALB is Honda's own Anti-lock Braking system. They ditched it in the 90s and did what everybody else did and bought 'ABS' from a reputable Tier 1 supplier like Bosch!

It is rare on an R8 - you'll see the ALB modulator sitting just in front of the brake master cylinder (on a RHD car) with a second brake fluid reservoir.

You'll know straight away if the dash warning light comes on and stays on but a crafty owner may have just disconnected the ECU so it doesn't even come on.

The way to test it is to find a quiet road and lamp the anchors on - locked wheels are bad :laughing2

It can be, and has been, removed before. It's a case of removing the modulator, pup, accumulator, high-pressure reservoir, valve, engine-bay brake pipes and master cylinder assy and fitting ones salvaged from a non-ALB 216.

Best to buy one without ALB if possible...

Re: Which things will kill our cars? Common faults?

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:22 am
by Paul_1978_yorks
GTiJohn wrote:ALB is Honda's own Anti-lock Braking system. They ditched it in the 90s and did what everybody else did and bought 'ABS' from a reputable Tier 1 supplier like Bosch!

It is rare on an R8 - you'll see the ALB modulator sitting just in front of the brake master cylinder (on a RHD car) with a second brake fluid reservoir.

You'll know straight away if the dash warning light comes on and stays on but a crafty owner may have just disconnected the ECU so it doesn't even come on.

The way to test it is to find a quiet road and lamp the anchors on - locked wheels are bad :laughing2

It can be, and has been, removed before. It's a case of removing the modulator, pup, accumulator, high-pressure reservoir, valve, engine-bay brake pipes and master cylinder assy and fitting ones salvaged from a non-ALB 216.

Best to buy one without ALB if possible...
Thanks John. I pick the car up on Thurs so I guess I'll find out then! It's a 1995 model 216. (Edit - did a little bit of digging, and it seems that the Honda ABS was fitted to the earlier cars. With mine being a 1995 model this might be nothing worth concerning myself about. Indeed the car is being sold with 'no faults' anyway!!).

So, silly question - if it doesn't have Honda's own ABS, does that mean the car won't have anti lock brakes?

Re: Which things will kill our cars? Common faults?

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:05 pm
by GTiJohn
Honda ALB (ALB2 to be precise - the earlier one was even worse!) was only ever fitted to Honda-engined 216&416s as well as 827s and maybe some 620/623s.

All other engines had the Bosch ABS 2E system fitted.

You can't fit one in place of the other - the engine gets in the way, as well as many other things :laughing2

The Bosch system is pretty good by comparison.

Re: Which things will kill our cars? Common faults?

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:47 pm
by Paul_1978_yorks
So all Rover 216's have Honda ABS then? There are no 216's with the Bosch system?

Re: Which things will kill our cars? Common faults?

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:10 pm
by GTiJohn
Paul_1978_yorks wrote:So all Rover 216's have Honda ABS then? There are no 216's with the Bosch system?
Correct.

And both added c.£900 to the list price, so not many people took up the option!

Re: Which things will kill our cars? Common faults?

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:37 pm
by Paul_1978_yorks
GTiJohn wrote:
Paul_1978_yorks wrote:So all Rover 216's have Honda ABS then? There are no 216's with the Bosch system?
Correct.

And both added c.£900 to the list price, so not many people took up the option!
Aaaaahhhh right - so I'm learning about the 216 now - the ABS was an optional extra? It will be interesting to see if mine has it. Looking forward to Thursday!

Re: Which things will kill our cars? Common faults?

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:11 pm
by Mr Teddy Bear
I think the majority of 216's with the D16 engine is non ALB but with power steering. Most people will agree that is the nicest option. The steering is heavy when parking with that small steering wheel.

That Honda engine is pretty much bomb proof, the point's to look out for are replacement cam belt [60k] water pump and thermostat from 90k miles. As far as I am aware genuine belts don't snap and quite often folk have run them up to 70k before replacement. If they've been run with the thermostat shut, it cooks the exhaust valve seal's in the head. The inlet and exhaust have differing stem diameter's so care is necessary to fit the correct replacement's.Unlike the K Series this is a head off job.

When worn the engine burn's vast quantities of engine oil, beware and check every 3-500 miles, it's a very small sump holding only 3.4 litres.


Get the brake fluid flushed through every two year's and remember to service the rear brake callipers. Make sure the calliper isn't seized to the carrier pin's, service kit's are still available via ebay. The needle roller bearing's under neath the hand brake lever on the calliper can seize/rust solid. If the carrier pins are ridged/worn they need to be replaced from Rimmers. Exchange callipers can be found from various remanufacturer's at reasonable cost. It's feasible to remove and strip the piston and replace seals etc. However if after removing the hair spring and lever from the top of the calliper, there is lot's of play in the cam, then the needle rollers are rust and a exchange part is needed.

Re: Which things will kill our cars? Common faults?

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:56 pm
by Paul_1978_yorks
Mr Teddy Bear wrote:I think the majority of 216's with the D16 engine is non ALB but with power steering. Most people will agree that is the nicest option. The steering is heavy when parking with that small steering wheel.

That Honda engine is pretty much bomb proof, the point's to look out for are replacement cam belt [60k] water pump and thermostat from 90k miles. As far as I am aware genuine belts don't snap and quite often folk have run them up to 70k before replacement. If they've been run with the thermostat shut, it cooks the exhaust valve seal's in the head. The inlet and exhaust have differing stem diameter's so care is necessary to fit the correct replacement's.Unlike the K Series this is a head off job.

When worn the engine burn's vast quantities of engine oil, beware and check every 3-500 miles, it's a very small sump holding only 3.4 litres.


Get the brake fluid flushed through every two year's and remember to service the rear brake callipers. Make sure the calliper isn't seized to the carrier pin's, service kit's are still available via ebay. The needle roller bearing's under neath the hand brake lever on the calliper can seize/rust solid. If the carrier pins are ridged/worn they need to be replaced from Rimmers. Exchange callipers can be found from various remanufacturer's at reasonable cost. It's feasible to remove and strip the piston and replace seals etc. However if after removing the hair spring and lever from the top of the calliper, there is lot's of play in the cam, then the needle rollers are rust and a exchange part is needed.
Hi, all that is a great help, thank you very much. The 216 will be a new experience for me having only ever owned 214 SEi's in the past (K-Series).

I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on it. It does have most service history (last 20 thousand miles missing), so I will review it to see what has and hasn't been done and take it from there.

Re: Which things will kill our cars? Common faults?

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:40 pm
by Paul_1978_yorks
Further to previous posts, my 216 SLi does not have ABS!

Re: Which things will kill our cars? Common faults?

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:17 am
by GTiJohn
Phew!

Re: Which things will kill our cars? Common faults?

Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:04 pm
by Mr Teddy Bear
A portable set of early Rover Diagosnic Test Kit [Testbook] Would draw a few extra to a club events, were we as a club to show up with a test set and run diagnostic's for club members?

Re: Which things will kill our cars? Common faults?

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:39 pm
by Paul_1978_yorks
Having had a few 214's - all of them have had alternator faults, and two had to have water pumps.

I've also never had an R8 that hasn't had central locking problems - so saving the regulators has got to be up there.

At least two I've had have had electric window issues too, so saving the electric window motors has got to be a must.

Re: Which things will kill our cars? Common faults?

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:10 pm
by Mr Teddy Bear
With respect to Rimmer Bros, I have found that not only are all the R8 brake servo units 'out of stock', but also the master cyl' assy' and worse than that they don't even stock m/cyl' repair kit's either.

These are all components that will eventually fail and either require replacement to satisfy the MOT, or kill the car.

I note that the Honda ALB kit is stocked and repair kit's too :blink I wonder if they could be persuaded to throw that obsolete kit away and free up some shelf space? :S

Re: Which things will kill our cars? Common faults?

Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:48 pm
by ROVER-25X
In a nutshell I think tin worm is the biggest killer, lots of parts available and with places like
this as a resource for parts and info its going to keep them around for a lot longer yet. :wink3