Any easy grommet between interior & engine?

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Dorchester
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Any easy grommet between interior & engine?

#1 Post by Dorchester » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:29 pm

As the title says I'm looking for an easy way to pass a wire between the fuse box or around and the engine bay.
The aim is to add a manual starter to ease the firing up on chilly mornings because my cabby is mainly fuelled with ethanol (E85) cheap & easy to find in France.
That push button is fitted with a 10k Ohms resistor and intended to be connected on the + wire of the coolant sensor, which is fooling the ECU telling it the weather is far much colder than it is actually, for example -12° instead of +12°.
I should add that I've fitted that device on my 75 V6 2.5 nearly 2 years ago and that it works a treat.
So where could I have enough room to add a small 2 wires cable?
Thanks a lot. :)
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Re: Any easy grommet between interior & engine?

#2 Post by 1234dist » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:14 pm

Right hand side at the bulkhead there is a large rubber grommet there you can pass a flat head screw drive through with your starter cables attached.

Any reason you don’t want it on the key as you still need to position 2 regardless?
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Re: Any easy grommet between interior & engine?

#3 Post by Dorchester » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:58 pm

1234dist wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:14 pm
Right hand side at the bulkhead there is a large rubber grommet there you can pass a flat head screw drive through with your starter cables attached.

Any reason you don’t want it on the key as you still need to position 2 regardless?
Thank you for that. I only hope it's the same grommet at the same place in my LHD car.
But I'm sorry or maybe my brains are slightly frozen by an early chill, but I don't clearly understand your second remark.
Do you mean I should put the key on the last position without firing up during a while?
I do that but it's not enough because first ethanol is less flammable and then you need more fuel than usual when fuelling with E85 mainly when starting, the engine being cold.
EDIT: the purpose of the device is to intercept the sign between coolant sensor & ECU & modify it, hence it should be fitted between each of them.
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Re: Any easy grommet between interior & engine?

#4 Post by 961tat » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:47 pm

They are on both side so you can use either :D

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Re: Any easy grommet between interior & engine?

#5 Post by Dorchester » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:20 pm

961tat wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:47 pm
They are on both side so you can use either :D
Thanks a lot mate! I'd guessed so after having a peep under the bonnet. :D
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Re: Any easy grommet between interior & engine?

#6 Post by Johnny 216GSi » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:08 am

Just to add my two-pence worth. The pass-through points I've most easily found are on the passenger side - if you peel pack the carpet you can find a cut-out that's not too far up and it'll pop a grommet out in the engine bay. My car is obviously RHD but I guess the same will be true of a LHD, just on the other side. This hole was intended to have the front fog light cable passed through it. You could also peel off a large tear-drop grommet on the back face of the engine at the top (on the Honda D series engines it's effectively behind the washer bottle on the left-hand side of the car (RHD). This was intended for the aircon pipework, so it reaches the evaporator mounted behind the dash on the inside of the car. Apparently, some cars don't have these...

What Dist is saying (I think) is that "position 3" on the ignition key switch is the temporary "start" position - it's where you hold the key to turn the starter, then once the engine has started you let go and the key falls back to position 2 (run). You could take a tap of 12v off position 3 ("start") so the coolant sensor voltage is modified whilst the engine cranks. Then when the driver lets go of the key, the +12v goes away and the coolant sensor operates normally - i.e. the mod is invisible to the driver and you don't have to remember to turn it off. If the coolant mod is required to operate for a short time after the car has started too, then you're best off with a separate switch... You could of course have an electronic circuit with a "pulse stretcher" that keeps the 12v mod connected to the coolant sensor for a little while longer after the "start" key position drops (driver lets go of the key) but that would need a little design work, though not much.
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Re: Any easy grommet between interior & engine?

#7 Post by Dorchester » Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:31 pm

Thank you Jonathan for your very comprehensive explanations. "Just to add my two-pence worth"? I think they're easily worth a few quids! :D
Not sure that a grommet located on the passenger side would be very helpful because I need to keep the button just below the wheel, on my left, i.e. totally opposite.
I would like to avoid the hassle of finding a way from the left to the right of my LHD car behind the console. The shorter way the easier.
Besides I'm unsure there may be a grommet for the A/C pipework at the back of my 214 Rover engine.
So far I've only observed the bulkhead from under the bonnet and only noticed both big grommets on each side, but I'll have a close look now from the cabin.
Provided I've already got the device ready to go (button with its resistor & long wire and 2 plugs so that I haven't to cut anything, just interpose the device between the coolant pipe plug & sensor plug), I don't want to make any mod on the steering column. As I'm neither engineer nor mechanic, I've to be cautious & prefer a straightforward & doable solution. My only obstacle to pass through is the bulkhead.
I'll keep you posted.
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Re: Any easy grommet between interior & engine?

#8 Post by Johnny 216GSi » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:46 am

Dorchester wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:31 pm
Thank you Jonathan for your very comprehensive explanations. "Just to add my two-pence worth"? I think they're easily worth a few quids! :D
Not sure that a grommet located on the passenger side would be very helpful because I need to keep the button just below the wheel, on my left, i.e. totally opposite.
I would like to avoid the hassle of finding a way from the left to the right of my LHD car behind the console. The shorter way the easier.
Besides I'm unsure there may be a grommet for the A/C pipework at the back of my 214 Rover engine.
So far I've only observed the bulkhead from under the bonnet and only noticed both big grommets on each side, but I'll have a close look now from the cabin.
Provided I've already got the device ready to go (button with its resistor & long wire and 2 plugs so that I haven't to cut anything, just interpose the device between the coolant pipe plug & sensor plug), I don't want to make any mod on the steering column. As I'm neither engineer nor mechanic, I've to be cautious & prefer a straightforward & doable solution. My only obstacle to pass through is the bulkhead.
I'll keep you posted.
For what it's worth, feeding a wire from the passenger side to the driver side behind the centre console is really easy. Just get your head down there and you'll see the fresh air behind the centre console, so a wire will push through literally anywhere. Remember to fuse the 12v feed as soon as you tap it off from wherever it's coming from - better safe than sorry. I know the resistor to coolant feed won't draw anything more than a few milliamps, but it's the danger of your new +12v feed wire rubbing on some sharp metal and eventually the PVC outer giving way so you get a 12v short and potential fire, or just a lack of general insulation causing the same thing.
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Re: Any easy grommet between interior & engine?

#9 Post by Dorchester » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:32 pm

Thank you for help & explanations.
I did it!
Easy indeed to go from left to right behind the dash: I was a bit worried because I'm used to the 75 mk1 Cowley built where it is (for me at least) a very nightmare to do the same, center console being fully obstructed.
I saw easily the empty grommet just at the edge of the passenger carpet (the one probably intended to pass through the fog lamp wires as I was told), I pushed it with a gentle push and it disappeared at once behind the bulkhead! Impossible to take it back under the bonnet!
Never mind, among my heap of bits & bobs I found another convenient one.
I hope the device will work tomorrow: I hadn't enough time to test it, it was dark & a bit chilly in the outside garage. But all is now connected.
Thank you once more. :clapping
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Re: Any easy grommet between interior & engine?

#10 Post by Johnny 216GSi » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:34 pm

Dorchester wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:32 pm
Thank you for help & explanations.
I did it!
Easy indeed to go from left to right behind the dash: I was a bit worried because I'm used to the 75 mk1 Cowley built where it is (for me at least) a very nightmare to do the same, center console being fully obstructed.
I saw easily the empty grommet just at the edge of the passenger carpet (the one probably intended to pass through the fog lamp wires as I was told), I pushed it with a gentle push and it disappeared at once behind the bulkhead! Impossible to take it back under the bonnet!
You do tend to lose the grommet! Like you, I actually bought one (about 1-inch / 25mm from memory) and put that in. I cut a hole in the middle for the wire and even found a small grommet to go around that, so I have a large grommet with a hole, another grommet in that hole and the wire though the middle!

I think that's the easiest hole to find and use, and it comes out in the engine bay in a nice place - you can hide all the wiring if you want to.

I bet you felt like I did when I pushed the screwdriver through - a shaft of light - you feel like India Jones finding the exit (or the treasure) :laughing2
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Re: Any easy grommet between interior & engine?

#11 Post by Dorchester » Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:02 pm

I'm happy to say that at last the E85 manual starter works fine: a mistake had been done in the assembly I'd been given & both wires had been inverted in a plug hence there was a shortcut... Nonsense! :headbanging
But I can't complain: the mate who sent me the device did it for free... :rolleyes
Now it's a very pleasure to scare a bit the ECU during 4 or 5 sec., letting it know that the coolant temperature is well below the actual one, i.e. -15°C instead of +8°C!
When your car is fuelled with ethanol, you need it.
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Re: Any easy grommet between interior & engine?

#12 Post by Dorchester » Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:07 pm

Here is the tiny & shiny push button starter in the cabin: can you spot it?

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Re: Any easy grommet between interior & engine?

#13 Post by GTiJohn » Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:56 pm

Neat :clapping
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Re: Any easy grommet between interior & engine?

#14 Post by Johnny 216GSi » Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:43 am

Dorchester wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:07 pm
Here is the tiny & shiny push button starter in the cabin: can you spot it?
I can see it! Do I win a prize? It's very neatly done. If it were me, I'd have added a speech synthesis device and an audio amplifier so the car said "Cold start activated" in a very calm, female voice when you pressed the button. But that is just me, I'm afraid :laughing2

That's a useful mod and one Rover probably didn't think it needed. But with colder temperatures and higher octane fuel, you can see a good reason for it. We might need to add it to our long-term development plans... :)
Last edited by Johnny 216GSi on Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Any easy grommet between interior & engine?

#15 Post by Dorchester » Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:46 am

Johnny 216GSi wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:43 am

I can see it! Do I win a prize? It's very neatly done. If it were me, I'd have added a speech synthesis device and an audio amplifier so the car said "Cold start activated" in a very calm, female voice when you pressed the button. But that is just me, I'm afraid :laughing2

That's a useful mod and one Rover probably didn't think it needed. But with colder temperatures and lower octane fuel, you can see a good reason for it. We might need to add it to our long-term development plans... :)
Very much so: in case you cross the Channel in the future, you've won a good tasty meal with a lovely French wine! You've my word. :D

TBH I need only to press the button 5 seconds only, that's enough to ease the firing up.
E85 (ethanol) is around octane 105, that makes the engine smoother & more efficient (you may win a few hp).
My 3 Rovers are fuelled with full ethanol: 25 with a legally approved kit, 75 V6 2.5 auto with the same starter with another resistor (24k Ohms) on the air sensor and now 214 with the starter only (I was told by a 'guru' that's enough in the 200 series, the ECU being keen to supply 20/25% more fuel at once when needed).
And I'm able as well to go back and fill the tanker with 95 or 95 without any problem.

Regarding the 214 cab and another mod, I intend to drill some nice round holes (same diameter as for the park alarm on my 75 rear bumper) at the bottom of the air box.
Two positive effects: unlike the 95 unleaded, ethanol appreciates some tepid even warm air, and the more air unrestricted by the shannon tube diameter the better.
Rover 214i cabriolet v16 1994 BRG & lightstone leather
Rover 25 1.4 Saws Tuning remapped 2002 platinum silver
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