Rover 416 GTI Auto - Restoring an old friend

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Vinny1979
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Re: Rover 416 GTI Auto - Restoring an old friend

#31 Post by Vinny1979 » Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:36 pm

Great read

I love Devon

Used to holiday there as a kid
1993 Rover 220 GSi Turbo , 2005 MG ZS 180 mk2

henryiett
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Re: Rover 416 GTI Auto - Restoring an old friend

#32 Post by henryiett » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:09 pm

Like ik my Rover in its life never went west of Bristol it went to as far north as Loch Ness and the south France
Rover 214si 1990

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Plodder
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Re: Rover 416 GTI Auto - Restoring an old friend

#33 Post by Plodder » Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:30 pm

Just a brief update on where I am since earlier in the year.
Still not in permanent accommodation so a lot of the jobs difficult to complete.
New distributor cap and rotor arm fitted. Start-up massively improved so the car now realising it’s a 4 cylinder car rather than just 3 cylinder on start up.

Stripped the offside wing mirror apart but still didn’t managed to get any more adjustment out of it .
On max adjustment it only just gives me an acceptable rear view. Wondering if this replacement mirror was actually for a left hand drive car.

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Decided to change the automatic transmission fluid after 40K miles (but realised it was actually 20 years old). Whilst there doesn’t seem to be anything wrong with the gearbox, apart from a sluggish clutch sometimes when it hasn’t been taken for a regular run, I decided to get an oil lab check on the transmission oil just to see what state it was in – big mistake! :o
Picture below shows the sample sent which should be red

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Came back saying that immediate action required, high levels of iron and aluminum, due to possible bearing or gear breakdown. After some on-line research I’ve decided not to worry too much. The main reason was I had no base line and it’s the rate of change in contaminates that’s crucial. I’ve recently changed the radiator and steel transmission oil cooler pipes, all of which had been lying around for many years and were probably highly contaminated. So I’ve decided the best course of action is to flush the system, get it tested to give me a base-line and then get a follow test in a year’s time - then see then if I need to worry.
More importantly I’ve improved my service records to ensure future maintenance is done on time.
Other work so far includes the relacquering of the fascia strip. Despite my best efforts and countless attempts following the rattle can instructions of no more than 3 coats I failed to get a decent gloss finish. Alternative methods on the internet suggest between 8 to 16 coats without any rubbing down between successive layers. I sprayed 8 layers and this seems to have worked to bit better and I’ve now got a half decent finish. But after a year of playing with it I have decided to cut my loses, refit and move on. Definitely a case of it didn’t do what it said on the can (instructions that is )

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Varnishing may have been a better method as it would have filled the surface texture of the veneer.
This might have given me a more comparable finish to the original wood finishers.

I have also put a bit of gaffer tape around the left hand end clip to aid removal.

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This is because I always rip this clip off the back of the fascia strip when removing it. The gaffer tape eases the clip through the metal panel aperture. Electrical sleeving would have probably looked and worked better but I didn’t have any that size.

Still waiting for delivery of silicon hose parts for the top and bottom hose, another story to follow, hoped to get these fitted this month but it hasn’t happened so I’ve had to cancel my 400 mile round trip to Gaydon on July 11th. :mope
Thanks for looking
1991 Rover 416 GTI Auto - Flame Red - Owned since Aug 97 :D

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Re: Rover 416 GTI Auto - Restoring an old friend

#34 Post by Plodder » Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:45 pm

Well they finally arrived after 8 weeks on order! :clapping
All the silicon hose parts needed to replace the top and bottom hoses

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Straight hose id 28mm (500mm long), Flexible Hoses id 28mm, id 16.5mm, id 9.5mm (each 1000mm long), Right Angle Hose, Right Angle Joiner, hose clips.

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Two off 28mm aluminum joiners with takes off for expansion tank feed (id 16.5mm) and breather (id 9.5mm).
1991 Rover 416 GTI Auto - Flame Red - Owned since Aug 97 :D

James3990
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Re: Rover 416 GTI Auto - Restoring an old friend

#35 Post by James3990 » Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:12 am

Loving the thread!

Great work so far. :cool
Rover 220 Coupe Turbo
Rover 220 Coupe Turbo Racer

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Re: Rover 416 GTI Auto - Restoring an old friend

#36 Post by Plodder » Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:52 pm

A temporary distraction whilst I was cutting and fitting the new top and bottom hoses, and sorting out a main relay issue, was the finisher between the sixth light (rear fixed glass pane) and the rear screen.
At some point I had caught the finisher at the bottom whilst cleaning the car and bent it slightly. This made it increasingly prone to being caught during cleaning and more damage resulted.

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Tried straightening the finisher in situ, but to no avail.

Looking at pictures of the clips involved on the Rimmer Bros website and having had experience of the clips on the bottom finisher on the rear screen I decided the best way of removing it was by sliding the finisher upwards leaving the clips in situ to be removed later. This didn’t work ,as I would later discover the edge of the finisher had been damaged. If I did it again I would have removed the top finisher from the rear screen as well.

I eventually unclipped two of the X shaped clips from behind the glass but this left 3 clips that seemed more secure. These broke as I pulled the finisher away from the glass to look underneath it.

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With the finisher removed it was clear that these three clips were attached to another plastic pin fitting in the rear pillar

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With the finisher removed the white X-clips can be detached from the orange pins easily by opening the tabs on the white X-clips with a tiny screwdriver.

The 3 orange pin fittings include seals to the bodywork (Similar to the fittings on the A-Pillar) .
These looked in good condition but I poured some water over them for good measure and no water found its way into the boot.

Straightening the old finisher was easy once removed , although after refitting I felt it might have been advantageous to tweak the ends a bit more so they were more secure against the glass.
The Rimmer diagram is also confusing as the diagram shows 2 X shaped clips DYC10034 and DCY10035, one was 94p and the other was £3. A search on the internet showed DCY10034 being the clips needed so I brought a few of those as extra just in case. The Rimmer Bros diagram also says you only need 2 clips but there are 5 fitted to mine.

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I also bought a new finisher as the soft edges of the old one had broken off and will save this for the future respray.
Refitting was easier as all the clips just pushed through to clip onto the pins or just behind the screen.
Finished job is now much tidier and hopefully will not be further damaged during washing.

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Back now to the hoses, main relay and boot water leak.
Hold on what about cleaning of the hard water scale in the scuttle /plenum chamber . :slapme
1991 Rover 416 GTI Auto - Flame Red - Owned since Aug 97 :D

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Re: Rover 416 GTI Auto - Restoring an old friend

#37 Post by crepello » Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:11 pm

Plodder wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:52 pm
Hold on what about cleaning of the hard water scale in the scuttle /plenum chamber . :slapme
Are you sure that's not just factory-applied cavity wax? There's plenty of that in mine.

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Re: Rover 416 GTI Auto - Restoring an old friend

#38 Post by Plodder » Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:51 pm

I’ve re-edited these post this morning as I had an emergency call last night from family so the original post was a bit short and sweet.
Could be cavity wax , not thought of that just assumed it was the affect of hard water and the heat from the engine causing loads of unsightly scale.
Looled a real mess in there when I looked .
Also seems to be sprayed pretty indiscriminately.
Might need to recoat it with some fresh stuff now that I’ve started cleaning it off although some areas are difficult to get to.
Anyone got any recommendations of products I could use here.
I am booked in to get the rest of the rustproofing checked and assessed but whilst I’m already working on this area with the grill and wipers off it wouldn’t take much just to recoat the area with some fresh wax once clean up is finished
1991 Rover 416 GTI Auto - Flame Red - Owned since Aug 97 :D

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Re: Rover 416 GTI Auto - Restoring an old friend

#39 Post by Plodder » Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:52 am

Here's a couple of pictures of the build up of hard water or cavity wax in the scuttle area on my car

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1991 Rover 416 GTI Auto - Flame Red - Owned since Aug 97 :D

crepello
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Re: Rover 416 GTI Auto - Restoring an old friend

#40 Post by crepello » Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:55 am

The question is - Where would all that hard water come from?

'Hard Rain' after all is some of the softest water available.

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Re: Rover 416 GTI Auto - Restoring an old friend

#41 Post by Plodder » Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:58 pm

I lived in a very hard water area in Hertfordshire
We got through 4 dishwashers in 20 years because of water scale issues and cleaned our shower head weekly because of the water scale build up
The hard water would have come from washing the car and the water used in the water bottle .Not sure whether the additives to car shampoo and windscreen cleaner help but after washing the car I’ve always had to polish the car to get rid of the white water marks. Down here in Devon the water is softer and rinsing with the car with water after washing leaving no marks at all.
Will have to get a sample of the stuff and add vinegar.
If it dissolves its likely to be scale otherwise it’ll probably be cavity wax as suggested
1991 Rover 416 GTI Auto - Flame Red - Owned since Aug 97 :D

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Re: Rover 416 GTI Auto - Restoring an old friend

#42 Post by Plodder » Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:54 pm

crepello wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:11 pm

Are you sure that's not just factory-applied cavity wax? There's plenty of that in mine.
Crepello you were indeed right its just grotty cavity wax .
Applied a bit of white spirit, as per Waxoyl’s instructions for removing waxoyl overspray on paint , and the old wax came off really easily.
Just need to finish off cleaning the area and I’ll reapply some fresh making sure I block the air intakes to the heater matrix.
That’ll be another job done!
1991 Rover 416 GTI Auto - Flame Red - Owned since Aug 97 :D

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Re: Rover 416 GTI Auto - Restoring an old friend

#43 Post by Plodder » Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:01 am

Just sorted out an agreed value classic car insurance.
Thankfully completely painless and hassle free.
Hardly any more than what I had been paying and now at least covers all the £££ spent on it last year .
Will also allow me to purchase a half decent replacement if the worst happened. :D
1991 Rover 416 GTI Auto - Flame Red - Owned since Aug 97 :D

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Re: Rover 416 GTI Auto - Restoring an old friend

#44 Post by Plodder » Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:14 pm

Scuttle/Plenum gallery all cleaned up ready for rewaxing at some point.

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Black plastic plenum grill cleaned with tooth paste to remove 30 years of grim and started cleaning up in the engine bay.
Can’t believe how well its coming up.
Work in progress shot!

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Cleaned out the rear sunroof drains in my attempt to trace a water leak in the boot.
Found a reminder of its time in storage under a tree jammed in the bottom of the rubber tube outlet.

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Not sure if this was leading to the water backing up in the pipe and leaking at the joint between the rubber panel fitting and the rubber hose itself.
Had one Devon storm and no leaks but more rain due soon so fingers crossed

Brought a new boot lid seal as well. I’ll fit this once I work out the best way to glue the ends of the seal together. I normally end up with the ends misaligned when I try to stick this sorts of things together.

All put back together for the MOT today –passed with a couple of advisories which were more observations than issues. :thumbup
1991 Rover 416 GTI Auto - Flame Red - Owned since Aug 97 :D

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Re: Rover 416 GTI Auto - Restoring an old friend

#45 Post by Plodder » Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:00 pm

Finally hoping I have sorted the boot leak as it seemed to be coming from under the seal in different places depending on the direction of the wind but mainly under the rear boot edge.

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I’ve noticed that the groove of the boot seal , where it fits onto the metal lip , was always wet just above the bumper as if the water is finding its way under the seal higher up.
This may account for the rusty boot lip I had repaired last year.

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Fitted the new boot seal but noticed that the lip on the off-side was in very poor condition with a burr on the edge of the metal lip which had resulted in a build-up of paint and the metal lip was distorted on the vertical part of the lip.
Carefully straightened the lip to avoid any further damage, there is also a depressed area around a spot weld so a bit of sealant might be required to complete a really good seal.

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Uncovered a bit of corroded metal on the lip edge under the rear screen, not too serious , that will need repairing at some point but for now I’ll clean it up and paint it to stop the rust progressing.
I think that might be a tiny leak through the boot air vent so will have the bumper off at some point so I can reseal this. I’ve seen pictures of the air vents on the 5 door but not the 4 door.

Had a trip out to South West Rust Proofing in Westbury near Bath, just on the day when the petrol shortage kicked off, to complete an assessment on the state of the existing rust proofing – or lack of it. Booked in for next March and I’m sure there will be a few photos from that visit.
The guys there were very interested in the car/brand, as are a lot of garages I go to, and were complementary about its condition underneath the car which was reassuring .

Have also finished the top and bottom hose ugrade to silicon hoses.
Went smoothly except for cutting the 16mm hose from the bottom hose to the expansion tank too short.
I know measure twice cut once I hear you all cry, well I did, in fact I measured three times . The problem was I measured it to the wrong part of the nozzle on the expansion tank - I measured it to the end of the metal pipe that is inserted inside the plastic nozzle to give it strength.

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Fortunately the supplier had a replacement in stock and I didn’t have to wait another 8 weeks, but set me back more cost on an already expensive exercise.
The top hose is not as neat as I would like it to be. The offcuts from the 500mm straight section used for the bottom hose was too short meaning the connection to the expansion tank breather hose is too far forward. I should have brought the 1000mm straight section which would have given me a bigger length of offcut to use
Decided not to trim the 9.5mm dia expansion tank breather hose to length just yet until I come up with a better solution. So this hose is a bit messy at the moment.

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Might also upgrade the hose clips to bolt clamps or black hose clips at some point, far too many shiny hose clips and sharp edges for my liking, although there appears to be no leaks so far!
Turned out to be an expensive exercise at around £250 (excluding trial parts and messed up parts) for all the hoses and connectors but I think you could do the same changes but using normal rubber hoses for under half the price which perhaps would have been more sensible.
However I’m pleased with the results and look forward to the hoses withstanding the rigors of the journeys up the M5 to the shows next year and beyond .


Thanks for looking
Last edited by Plodder on Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
1991 Rover 416 GTI Auto - Flame Red - Owned since Aug 97 :D

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