T series cooling fan

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Paul_1978_yorks
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T series cooling fan

#1 Post by Paul_1978_yorks » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:28 pm

Took the Tourer out tonight. Noticed after leaving it idling the fan didn’t kick in and the gauge climbed to the top.

Spoke to Craig who suggested unplugging the CTS and the fan should kick in. It didn’t kick in but the engine revs changed up to 1500.

Checked the fuse - the same fuse runs the fan and the rear wiper. The rear wiper works ok so assume fuse is OK.

Could it still be a faulty CTS or something else?
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Re: T series cooling fan

#2 Post by Johnny 216GSi » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:44 pm

Just my two pence worth - there might very well be two temperature sensors, or a temp sensor and a fan switch/sensor. There is on the 216.

So you might have pulled out the temp sensor that the ECU monitors to decide what the engine temperature is and decide what idle should be, i.e. an R8 idles up to 1500 (or higher) if the engine is stone cold (as in... the revs rising if you start the car and do nothing - the revs climb on their own and only start to drop when there some temperature in the engine).

There might be a separate fan switch, and this could be the culprit. Here's a replacement fan switch/sensor: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Radiator-fan ... 4073894961

If the back end of the sensor didn't look like this one does, I think you got the CTS for the ECU - hence why the engine revs jumped.

Does the fan turn freely by hand? It'd be the first thing to check (only do this with a cool engine and the engine turned off, or better still - temporarily disconnect the battery as I believe the fan can start automatically at any time regardless of the ignition switch position - it does on the 216 and on the Concertos there's a warning label to this effect on the slam panel).

You can check the fan turns with 12V applied of course... we did this on a 216 at the NEC last year. Find the fan plug (it will be close to the fan on a wire end) and disconnect it. Then run a positive and a negative wire from the battery to the connector that is on the lead end that goes to the fan. This has to be done carefully though, as you don't want to short out the battery. I managed to get two wires poked into the wiring that goes to the fan with the plug disconnected, and got some insulating tape around them so they definitely wouldn't touch. Then the other ends to the battery and the fan spun up, so we knew it wasn't a fan problem and must have been a sensor problem. You might want to think about putting a 10A fuse in the +ve wire you use to the fan if you do this, so it'll definitely blow if the wires short or there is a genuine problem with the fan (is seized or has a shorted winding).

You might want to disconnect the fan plug anyway, and see if it's dirty inside - try a clean out and a push together and pull apart a few times as there might be some oxidation that means a circuit isn't being made. If you do find the fan switch sensor, do the same - plug/loom disconnected, clean out and dirt, and reconnect - maybe do it a few times as there might be some corrosion of the contacts.

If all this fails and the fuse box fuse is okay, it's most likely the fan switch/temperature sensor.
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Re: T series cooling fan

#3 Post by Paul_1978_yorks » Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:17 pm

Thanks for all your help as always.

I will get a CTS and see what occurs with that, and if not the radiator switch.

Will have to be in a couple of weeks though as I’m away.

Will update thread in due course!
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Re: T series cooling fan

#4 Post by Paul_1978_yorks » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:43 pm

Fitted a new CTS - no change to symptoms.
Changed the fuse - no change.
Ran a couple of wires to the white fan plug - I just got sparks :o and the fan didn’t come on.

The fan switch (plug) appears to be hard wired to the fan so presumably I can’t swap the switch and have to do the whole fan.

I’ve got a multimeter but not sure where to test.

Craig M has been giving me some tips too. Anyone else got any further ideas?

Edit - I’ve just re-read Johnny’s message and realise I’ve got a couple of other things to try.
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Re: T series cooling fan

#5 Post by Johnny 216GSi » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:03 pm

Paul_1978_yorks wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:43 pm
Craig M has been giving me some tips too. Anyone else got any further ideas?

Edit - I’ve just re-read Johnny’s message and realise I’ve got a couple of other things to try.
The fan switch you're looking for is a separate sensor mounted to the radiator.

Check this thread from 2007. Third post down from Tom Pinney:

http://www.rover200.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=983

Recommendation is to remove the plug from the identified fan switch on the left hand side of the radiator and short the 2 pins in the free Rover loom plug end together - the fan should spin up (assuming the engine is running).

This is the sensor you need to replace if it's faulty, i.e. if the fan does indeed run when the plug to the correctly identified sensor is removed and its pins shorted together, simulating "fan switch on", i.e. "please run the fan now!"

If you're getting sparks when you've wired straight from the battery to the plug on the fan itself (disconnected from the car loom) then the motor in the fan could have seized. It can happen through the winter months when some extra corrosion sets in. Does the fan turn freely by hand? (with the ignition OFF and the engine cool...)

It's either the fan or the fan switch in the radiator... It can't be the CTS according to Tom Pinney, as on the NASP models the fan isn't controlled by its signal - the CTS is only for the ECU and its control of fuelling. It probably does turn the fans on on a turbo (or rather the ECU does, from the CTS reading) - not so on the NASP engine you have.

Craig may have thought you had a turbo, which you don't...
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Re: T series cooling fan

#6 Post by Paul_1978_yorks » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:04 pm

Hi Johnny - apologies the the delay.

Diagnosis correct!

I removed the plug, shorted with a wire, and the fan came on!

Now to get a fan switch which is easy. Question is how quick and easy is it to change without getting coolant all over. It’s quite tricky to get to.

Is this the right part? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193469322246
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Re: T series cooling fan

#7 Post by RoverRevival » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:18 pm

Quicker, cheaper, same part numbers

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254263750654
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Re: T series cooling fan

#8 Post by Paul_1978_yorks » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:39 pm

Top man Craig! Def the right one for my car?
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Re: T series cooling fan

#9 Post by RoverRevival » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:50 pm

Exactly the the same part number you posted.

Regarding fitting, you are going to get wet...*laughs*

On the positives, the tseries is easy to bleed, just top up what it’s lost leave it running for 5 min with the cap off.

Cap on and shut down and leave for a couple of hours and top up if needed.
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Re: T series cooling fan

#10 Post by Paul_1978_yorks » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:42 pm

Cheers Craig. Fan switch has arrived. Job for Friday.
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Re: T series cooling fan

#11 Post by Paul_1978_yorks » Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:38 pm

All done. I did get wet. The rubber bung from the old switch remained in the radiator. I lost most fluid trying to get the old bung out. In the end I left the old bung in and got the new switch in as quick as I could. I lost a litre of coolant. The cooling system holds 7.3 litres. I topped it up with water as I didn’t have coolant (I should have got some in hindsight). I’ll need to do a coolant change I would imagine as the mixture will now be 1/7th weaker.
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