The Hunt For Driveability in a 416

Done anything to upgrade or personalise your 200 or 400? Wanting some advice on upgrades? Then talk about it in here.

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Cromp85
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Location: Dudley, West Midlands

Re: The Hunt For Driveability in a 416

#16 Post by Cromp85 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:21 pm

Im 99% sure at least the R8 exhaust back box will fit. I fitted the OE backbox off a 1.8 MGZS to my 220GSI as a cheap mot fix. The ZS mid pipe looked the same as mine, but im not shure of the front flange as i did not need to replace that pipe.
My Rovers to date:
1994 Rover 220GSI in Tahiti blue (On the road)
2002 MG ZR 105 in Solar red (On loan)
1995 214i (On SORN)

The Origina lNom
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Re: The Hunt For Driveability in a 416

#17 Post by The Origina lNom » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:58 pm

All pipes have arrived. So has Christmas and the lower temperatures, I'll try and get the interior swapped over during the break. Also got an R 25 that needs suspension mods to take it to GTi spec.

The Origina lNom
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Re: The Hunt For Driveability in a 416

#18 Post by The Origina lNom » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:32 am

After the Christmas break, I have now obtained a pair of rear Spax springs to suit my car which I hope will not lower the back of the car by too much.
I have a garage full of other parts waiting to be fitted but I am saving my enthusiasm for slightly warmer weather.
I really need to fit some parts to regain garage space but all in good time.

The Origina lNom
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Re: The Hunt For Driveability in a 416

#19 Post by The Origina lNom » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:56 pm

Spring is here and I now have my Bilstein shock absorbers fitted all round.
I used the ZS120 front springs and rear Spax SO32002 springs for the 400RT.
Initially, I lost sharpness in the steering and the front was far too prone to understeer.This was because the rear of the car was far too low.
So I fitted 1cm spacers between the top cup and the spring which put a lot of tension on the spring and made the rear quite hard at the moment but it was always going to be a compromise using different springs front and back.
The 1cm lift of the rear dramatically improved the sharpness in my steering. The springs were a flowery hanging basket to fit to the shocks and I eventually borrowed a mates three claw spring compressors to enable me to get a turn or two on the top nut.
I live in an area where speed bumps are common and they are planning to introduce a 20mph speed limit so I needed the front to be controlled but fairly gentle which was why I did not buy a full Spax spring kit in the first place as it would have been too low as I run 55 profile rear tyres on 16" Hairpins and too hard for my old back.
Last edited by The Origina lNom on Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Vinny1979
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Re: The Hunt For Driveability in a 416

#20 Post by Vinny1979 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:48 pm

Bilstein make shocks for the r8? :o
1993 Rover 220 GSi Turbo , 2005 MG ZS 180 mk2

The Origina lNom
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Re: The Hunt For Driveability in a 416

#21 Post by The Origina lNom » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:01 pm

No its a 400 RT bubble. :)

The Origina lNom
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Re: The Hunt For Driveability in a 416

#22 Post by The Origina lNom » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:32 pm

Slow progress.After much faffing, I have now fitted an MG TF leather steering wheel and airbag.
I am still struggling with suspension springs and ride height.
Spax S32002 springs are designed for 15 inch wheels and I am running 16 inch hairpins. I have used a spacer on the top of the damper to preload the rear springs and maintain clearance of the 205/50/16 tyres on the rear arches (even under load with rear passengers)
The problem I am having is that I have used ZS120 springs on the front dampers. They are designed for 17 inch wheels so I have a 50mm arch to tyre gap and having the vfront sit so high affects the steering geometry adversely.
the ZS spring rates are perfectly suited to the car apart from the ride height so I either need to have the spring rates measured and a new lower set made up which would cost around £200 or
'adsjust', the ZS120 springs to sit 25mm lower.
I contacted Spax Direct to try and buy a set of front springs but they were most unhelpful explaining that since they were not spring manufacturers the could only sell me a boxed full kit.
Imagine if tyre resellers would only sell you a set of four tyres when you needed one.
I declined, as whilst buying for springs would have been uncomfortable for my wallet, it would also have given me a harsher ride than I wanted.
There are many speed humps near where I live.

The Origina lNom
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Re: The Hunt For Driveability in a 416

#23 Post by The Origina lNom » Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:59 pm

Midway through fitting manifold back 57mm exhaust. I bought the wrong cat. The one I bought is three bolt flange to three bolt flange when I needed two bolt to three bolt.
Lucky the US oversized manifold came complete with cat replacement pipe.
Cat replacement pipe is temp fix until I find correct cat as it will not pass MOT with this fitted.
https://www.flickr.com/gp/183979081@N08/0wx0Ug
Please excuse the filth which will be corrected soon.
Note the hammerite coated calipers/carriers which still look good two years in.
Incidentally, the photo of the multicoloured front of the vehicle cost me £55 due to me being in a hurry and parking in the wrong place.
Last edited by The Origina lNom on Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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1234dist
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Re: The Hunt For Driveability in a 416

#24 Post by 1234dist » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:46 pm

Image
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Re: The Hunt For Driveability in a 416

#25 Post by The Origina lNom » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:41 pm

After surviving a search expedition into the black hole (which i call my garage because anything left remotely near the fron gets inexorably sucked in to at least halfway down),
I rediscovered a newish Honda 216 cat and a mid section designed for a Rover coupe that was approximately 54mm outside diameter.
These I attached to my 2.25 inch US downpipes with a 216 single pipe backbox and three extension sleeves.
I think I may have lost a bit of torque at lower revs but upwards of 3000rpm I now have a much wider powerband that starts at 30000rpm.
It feels a little like turbo lag when accelerating from a standstill up to 3000rpm
This is exacerbated by my 16 inch wheels which have upped the gearing slightly. In a manual car this would be almost invisible if you were in a hurry.
The engine also runs slightly cooler as indicated by the temp gauge.
I will endeavour to organise my pics with captions rather than being a jumbled mess but I am still tinkering to achieve the best possible result.

Edit: I have an exhaust leak from around the cat which may be costing me some low revs torque.
New gasket ordered.

Edit : Donut gaskets arrived. 1 x 42mm and 1 x 45mm.
I will be using one of these to connect my 57mm downpipe to the catalytic converter.
I will loosely test fit both but I suspect the restriction of the 42mm gasket will be the one that gives me more low down torque.
The mid to upper revs are now dynamic. It really shifts on dual carriageways and motorways now. Much faster than before.
If the restriction of the smaller donut gasket gives me some lower revs torque , I will be absolutely over the moon.
I hope to get busy at the weekend.

The Origina lNom
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Re: The Hunt For Driveability in a 416

#26 Post by The Origina lNom » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:55 pm

Although the 57mm manifold & downpipe yielded great top end power it also caused my engine to run slightly lean as was revealed at the weekend so with reluctance, I am changinging to the Honda / early 216GTi 4-2 cast manifold and 2-1 downpipe but attaching a catalytic converter to the end.The lack of low down power would have been more manageable in a manual car/ DOHC engine or if I wanted to chip and tune the ignition.
The ceramic coated big bore manifold will be up for sale on eBay soon.
If you look at the manifold you will see the bolt where the sensor goes.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/183979081 ... ed-public/
Last edited by The Origina lNom on Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Paul_1978_yorks
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Re: The Hunt For Driveability in a 416

#27 Post by Paul_1978_yorks » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:35 pm

Great thread. Any pics of the car? :D
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25/45/75

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Re: The Hunt For Driveability in a 416

#28 Post by The Origina lNom » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:01 pm

Pics of car to follow when it has been cleaned.
I have severe back problems which is why progress has been so slow but I now have a much more willing engine thanks to the 4-2-1 manifold available from Rimmers and downpipe from a Rover 416 obtainable from the bay of E. It revs more freely in the mid and upper ranges with no loss of low down torque and the ecu does not need to be chipped to increase the fuelling.

In my opinion, the best of most worlds with this car. The lamda sensor hole in the manifold is the only visible difference between the 216/416GTi manifold. Grinding a hole in a non sensor manifold and welding a nut in place to take the sensor would certainly be much cheaper than buying new if you know a friendly welder.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/183979081 ... ed-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/183979081 ... ed-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/183979081 ... ed-public/
If it was a manual track car Iwould definitely have kept the bigger diameter manifold which yielded better mid and peak power for loss of low down torque at the expense of making the engine run weak.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/183979081 ... ed-public/

A single exhaust extender flexi links a standard mid pipe (which I had to cut off the cat converter meeting flange in order to add the flexi extension further back), to standard back box. In this way I get to use the standard cat and have no MOT problems.


The 4-2-1 cast iron Honda manifold with 416 downpipe is the second best modification that I have found for the D16 SOHC cars. The best being the ZS180 rear discs and caliper mounting brackets with standard 89-94 216 calipers. The smaller piston in the standard caliper means that the long pedal travel/ reservoir change plague is avoided whilst still giving far safer braking. (given that I have an ABS car this mod stops the rear from locking up under heavy braking.)
I know popular wisdom says that 70 odd percent of braking is done at the front but this was absolutely the best and most noticeable improvement that I made.

A single exhaust extender flexi links a standard mid pipe (which I had to cut off the mid section cat meeting flange in order to add the extension further back), to standard back box. In this way I get to use the standard cat and have no MOT problems.

My car now a lot more driveable and next needs the front springs lowered by 15mm to get the stance and handling that I require. I have discovered an electric device that delivers intense heat through a coil of wire and working off mains current, I intend to superheat my front springs at one end to get the desired drop as it sits visibly (to those who notice such things) too high at the frront.
:laughing2

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