Aftermarket Immobiliser

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Julesmat50
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Aftermarket Immobiliser

#1 Post by Julesmat50 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:39 am

Not a Rover issue, but this forum seems a font of knowledge, so I will ask and see if anyone can help.
My father has a Suzuki which before he got it, had been fitted with an aftermarket alarm/immobiliser (I assume as the car has a remote key access it was added to give the car extra security). In common with a lot of fobs, one of them has totally disintegrated so he now only has one that works, which worries him as if for any reason he has an issue with this fob, he will be stranded. I can get him a spare, as there are some on Ebay, but they are second-hand ones. How easy will it be to get a secondhand immobiliser fob to work with my father's car?
Were it one supplied by the manufacturer, I could get it synced from the local dealer, but as it's an aftermarket one, does anyone have any suggestions?
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Re: Aftermarket Immobiliser

#2 Post by 1234dist » Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:38 am

As shitzuki are still alive, any dealer shout be able to program the fob and rip you off accordingly. Don’t be surprised if bills are £70+
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Re: Aftermarket Immobiliser

#3 Post by JOHNDQ » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:53 am

Is it a Cobra unit?

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Re: Aftermarket Immobiliser

#4 Post by Johnny 216GSi » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:45 am

Julesmat50 wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:39 am
Not a Rover issue, but this forum seems a font of knowledge, so I will ask and see if anyone can help.
My father has a Suzuki which before he got it, had been fitted with an aftermarket alarm/immobiliser (I assume as the car has a remote key access it was added to give the car extra security). In common with a lot of fobs, one of them has totally disintegrated so he now only has one that works, which worries him as if for any reason he has an issue with this fob, he will be stranded. I can get him a spare, as there are some on Ebay, but they are second-hand ones. How easy will it be to get a secondhand immobiliser fob to work with my father's car?
Were it one supplied by the manufacturer, I could get it synced from the local dealer, but as it's an aftermarket one, does anyone have any suggestions?
If it's aftermarket, then there should be instructions that accompany the alarm that show you how to pair new keys with it. Cobra units have this ability, for example.

If you know the make and model of the immobiliser, it would help as you can then get in touch with the manufacturer or possibly find the manual online.

If you can't find syncing information, can you buy a complete alarm system and fobs - the same or second hand? Provided you do a like-for like cut-and-splice of the wiring between the existing and replacement alarm, it should work without problems. Problem is, the second-hand unit won't have wiring information with it - they just have a set of innocuous black wires coming out of the box so finding one where the person that's removed it has labelled all the wires might be difficult. If I've got all the wiring information I need and I'm splicing in a replacement, I tend to tape a piece of paper with a number key to the wires - matching numbers each side of any cut I make so I never get into a mess.

Other options include:

1. Since you have 1 working key, you can arm and disarm the unit and this makes tracing the wiring function much easier. You can find the immobilised circuits and feeds for alarm trips such as the door switches. At this point, you can cut the unit out and replace it with a new one which does everything you want it to. All alarm/immobiliser systems work on the same basic principles, so they should be interchangeable provided you know what the existing wiring does. They all need a 12v permanent feed, ground, a switch 12v line to hold the alarm/immobiliser off when the vehicle is running. Then they just need feeds from door switches, lights, etc. that either switch to ground or +12v when triggered. Immobilisers just break electrical circuits, so if you can arm/disarm the existing alarm and find out using a multimeter which pairs of wires are being connected together/disconnected by the relays in the immobiliser, these can simply be attached to the normally open immobiliser contact sets on the replacement unit.

2. If the second fob has failed just because the case has fallen appart, you should be able to find a spare case.

3. If the 2nd fob basically works but the buttons only work if you press them very hard dozens of times, it would be possible to find replacement buttons and solder them in.
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Re: Aftermarket Immobiliser

#5 Post by Julesmat50 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:06 pm

1234dist wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:38 am
As shitzuki are still alive, any dealer shout be able to program the fob and rip you off accordingly. Don’t be surprised if bills are £70+
This would make life a whole load easier albeit expensive, but regrettably it's an aftermarket system, so like Jon Snow "they know nothing" :D
JOHNDQ wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:53 am
Is it a Cobra unit?
It's a GT Auto Alarms system. Apparently it's an Italian company, which with the reputation that Italian electrics had in Italian cars, probably explains why the fob is in bits! :laughing2
Johnny 216GSi wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:45 am
If it's aftermarket, then there should be instructions that accompany the alarm that show you how to pair new keys with it. Cobra units have this ability, for example.
3. If the 2nd fob basically works but the buttons only work if you press them very hard dozens of times, it would be possible to find replacement buttons and solder them in.
He has the instructions for pairing the fobs, but if I get a fob for him it won't be a new unused one (these are completely unavailable even from the supplier of the system) but secondhand, which means it's already been paired with a unit. Would this make any difference?
The unlock/lock microswitch inside the fob (there is no separate button for each action) has broken off completely from the circuitboard and is in 3 bits!

At the present time, there seems to be 3 options on how to proceed in ascending order of cost -
1. Get a secondhand one and hope it can be synced (about £25)
2. There seems to be a few places that claim to be able to repair the existing fob for about £70
3. Get an autoelectrician to remove the system entirely and go back to just the remote locking without any immobiliser.
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Re: Aftermarket Immobiliser

#6 Post by Johnny 216GSi » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:11 pm

Julesmat50 wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:06 pm
1234dist wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:38 am
As shitzuki are still alive, any dealer shout be able to program the fob and rip you off accordingly. Don’t be surprised if bills are £70+
This would make life a whole load easier albeit expensive, but regrettably it's an aftermarket system, so like Jon Snow "they know nothing" :D
JOHNDQ wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:53 am
Is it a Cobra unit?
It's a GT Auto Alarms system. Apparently it's an Italian company, which with the reputation that Italian electrics had in Italian cars, probably explains why the fob is in bits! :laughing2
Johnny 216GSi wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:45 am
If it's aftermarket, then there should be instructions that accompany the alarm that show you how to pair new keys with it. Cobra units have this ability, for example.
3. If the 2nd fob basically works but the buttons only work if you press them very hard dozens of times, it would be possible to find replacement buttons and solder them in.
He has the instructions for pairing the fobs, but if I get a fob for him it won't be a new unused one (these are completely unavailable even from the supplier of the system) but secondhand, which means it's already been paired with a unit. Would this make any difference?
The unlock/lock microswitch inside the fob (there is no separate button for each action) has broken off completely from the circuitboard and is in 3 bits!

At the present time, there seems to be 3 options on how to proceed in ascending order of cost -
1. Get a secondhand one and hope it can be synced (about £25)
2. There seems to be a few places that claim to be able to repair the existing fob for about £70
3. Get an autoelectrician to remove the system entirely and go back to just the remote locking without any immobiliser.
I don't think the fob knows anything about what units it's been paired to. It's the alarm/immobiliser than remembers the keys.

Even if it's a rolling code (it won't be) the immobiliser should pick it up and the key won't know anything! I'd go as far as to say you can pair a key with multiple immobilisers at the same time. Provided the rolling code algorithm looks either side of the curren code for a few "acceptable" codes either side, I bet you can use the same key with several paired immobilisers.

If you upload a photo of the broken fob, I might be able to point you in the direction of a replacement switch if you're a dab hand at soldering...

If you posted it to me and it was only a switch replacement, provided we can find a replacement switch/button, I should be able to do it.
Last edited by Johnny 216GSi on Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Aftermarket Immobiliser

#7 Post by 1234dist » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:13 pm

might be easier and cheaper to get an auto electrician to rip it all out, last one i had came at about £40.
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Re: Aftermarket Immobiliser

#8 Post by Julesmat50 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:32 pm

Johnny 216GSi wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:11 pm
If you upload a photo of the broken fob, I might be able to point you in the direction of a replacement switch if you're a dab hand at soldering...

If you posted it to me and it was only a switch replacement, provided we can find a replacement switch/button, I should be able to do it.
Here are couple of pics of the offending fob :D
https://ibb.co/i8iFqc
https://ibb.co/cJxfOx

I "think" the microswitch is meant to connect the 2 blobs of solder between the black chip and the items labelled 101 and 102
And thanks to the ominpresent Dist for uploading these before I could blink! :angel
Last edited by Julesmat50 on Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Aftermarket Immobiliser

#9 Post by 1234dist » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:35 pm

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220 Coupe turbo K785OAT (issues :glare )
Rover Sport 220GTI m-series K56AEP
218 VVC Cabriolet R170FEU
220 GTI M-series J777RAL
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75 2.0 CDT P80CJM
620 SLI P267LOM HONDA
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Re: Aftermarket Immobiliser

#10 Post by Johnny 216GSi » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:14 pm

Replied to the OP's PM now. Will look at trying to fix this (perhaps...)
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